Exposing SCAMMERS In Poker

what’s up guys Doug Polk here and today we’re going to talk about a very controversial subject scammers in poker showed you out them after they scam now Before we jump in and talk about any specific examples anything like that I want to open with the two sides of the argument on whether you should be outing scammers or not the first side of the argument is we should not be airing this stuff out publicly because it makes poker look bad and that’s not good for the game the second argument is that when these things happen we should be outing them because it protects the community and the future other people won’t get hurt now I find myself firmly planted on the second position but the first position does have some reasonable arguments that I want to bring up and talk about as well let’s separate this into talking about is it good for the game and then is it good for the poker community into two different arguments because there’s an effect on both of them when you out someone’s a scammer and we should talk about the total effect combined by analyzing each one individually starting with talking about is it good for the game of poker to out people well start off with some reasons why it might not be good and the first and most important one is pretty obvious let’s say that you have a casual poker viewer / player and every now and then they check in to see counts going on in poker and the world exists online and then they check out 2+2 or social media and they see everyone talking about a player that was another player a lot of money and refuses to play what effect does that have on that person the future for wanting to play poker is it good or bad and the answer is clearly bad when someone hears negative things about the game and that these types of things are going on then in the future when they think of poker they’re gonna associate some of these negative aspects to poker because of these stories so I do believe that when someone hears a negative story you know to do with scamming or cheating or any of this those types of subjects I think the overall chance that person wants to play poker in the future does decline another reason that might be particularly bad in poker is that poker is already associated with gambling because it’s gambling so when these things happen in poker compared value on walls or in business deals when it happens in a game that is gambling it feels extra nefarious compared to some of these other areas so it compounds here and makes the net effect on the way if you might perceive poker to be a lot worse there are a couple arguments on the other side of the coin first starters these stories tend to be very popular with someone Oh is someone money and isn’t going to pay them or cheat it or anything like that and you might get people that would never would never have heard of poker to hear about poker because they’re interested in these stories is it the way we want them to get into poker no we prefer to look at bracelet winners and and you know high stakes players and personalities and good videos and all that kind of stuff but you know at the end of the day if someone hears about poker that is a good thing for the game because it grows also people are used to scandals across the board in all kinds of industries poker is no different so when someone sees some of these stories maybe they think to themselves at least even in poker where it’s gambling if someone does something that’s morally wrong they still have to face repercussions for their actions so to answer the question is it good for the game of poker to be outing people that have scammed you probably not however there are some seriously positive things that happen from the poker community side you can’t just ignore when looking at the total effect of outing scammers first off it acts as a deterrent if someone sees other people getting outed for not paying someone money that they owe them or for cheating them then they’re less likely to take place in activity in the future if you think you’re in a community where no one will ever say anything if money you know exchanges hands is never heard from then you’re a lot more likely to commit those crimes in a community that vocally airs and people make these errors and owe people money by scamming them then they’re much less likely to do so in the future I think that’s an important element to the community because if you don’t have that what’s the final deterrent to someone for them to pay your money we don’t live in like the 1970s anymore or 1950s anymore you can’t break legs and get your money back you have to do it through legal channels which begs the question what are those channels and honestly there’s not a lot of good ones you could take someone to court but in some states aren’t even allowed to game and oftentimes these types of deals are going to be tough to prove one way or the other not saying it’s impossible but a tough road to go down that will include a lot of legal fees other than that you don’t have much in your arsenal other than letting the community know this person is not trustworthy owes you money and is likely to commit these things in the future when we see certain offenses happen oftentimes you see other people come forward to say hey I had this exact same experience with this person and they only wanted to these things often snowball and then once they’re aired out you find out all these other problems that this person has had in the community now knows about I personally have an experience with this happening as well five or six years ago I made a transfer with Brad booth where we swapped online money for cash I said in the first 15,000 and he gave me 15,000 cash he then asked for 30 thousand I sent in 30 thousand and when I showed up to get the cash he told me he was broke and there was nothing left at this point I realized I was going to have to out him because I wasn’t going to get my money back when I did come forward to say something to protect other people there were certainly people that said Doug everyone knew Brad was broke know everyone knew you just don’t you don’t trade with Brad because he’s broke he can’t trust him and I said no everyone didn’t know because no one ever told me I come from an online background I’m you know played online played stars fulfilled all those sites I didn’t play the casinos much how was I supposed to know all I knew about bad booth was that Bluff against bill Ivey were Ivey folded King’s afterwards a couple people came to you with stories about Brad that included large debts that he owed elsewhere and I couldn’t help but feel like if someone had stepped forward and said something then this wouldn’t happen to me and because I did come forward and say something I hope that other people were protected than my gun scammed otherwise I do want to say quickly about Brad since that day he actually has been making regular payments to me we’re still a ways to go here are getting it paid back but I think his hearts in the right place and he has been making payments so I don’t want to make it seem like I’m attacking Brad he made a mistake and he is doing its best to rectify the situation that story highlights my second point which is that it protects the community that we live in scum these stuff happened in all areas of the world in all industries poker is no different in fact poker is probably a lot worse but the thing is if we don’t come forward and say something then other people are going to get hurt because you didn’t want to be the one to say something and a lot of times people don’t come forward and say something because they feel if they do the person will never pay them back frankly I feel that’s kind of selfish you should be trying to protect the people around you protect this game that we love think the people that play this game that we love by saying something so these things can’t happen again the future you know it blows my mind when these stories come out it’s almost never just one incident usually there are other instances play as well a good example of that is what happened about three and a half years ago between myself and Joshua Tyler it’s a bit of a long story but the cliff notes are someone pretended to be my friend got access to my computers hacked them so they could see was there on my screen and the next time I traveled to play poker set up an account to play against me and then 135 thousand dollars of my money ultimately I reported them figure it out it probably was Joshua Tyler and PokerStars locked down the account and gave me the money back afterwards Josh recruits do anything to prove his innocence and showed up at my house with a couple of guys look there are a lot of these people out there and this guy didn’t just get me he got a lot of people when I came forward with my story a bunch of other people came forward with their stories with Josh as well usually involving him showing up at their house and wanted to hang out for a weekend sounds like a good time before we move on I wanted to show my favorite ham from the session or playing 2550 I opened up ten four suited he calls King nine five he leaves I raised he calls turn Queen gives me a fluster out of gutter he checks I bet he calls River King check check Jack deuce off so on the flop he just led called Jack deuce you know standard really you got the backdoor gutter turn you you turn a gutshot draw so clear check call down there the turn and yeah share down your jack I that this seems like totally normal standard hand to me when someone comes forward to save a story like this that they’ve had on someone well you’re actually doing is protecting the community and you’re making it so that this person cannot continue this type of behavior and in the world of poker more people are going to be protected this brings me to my final point which is ethically I think you have a responsibility to step forward and say something when this happens to people instead of trying to not say anything for personal gain I mean imagine how recreational players feel when they hear people openly saying don’t talk about these scams you’re going to scare away the fish how would you feel if you came into poker and heard someone say that oh so bad stuff happens and we pretend it doesn’t I could just get scammed no one’s going to say anything or care that’s not the right thing to do do we want to live in a community where people get scammed and we don’t say things so that new fish come in so we can all keep making money no we have a moral obligation when we are hurt in these in these instances to come forward to protect the people around us and to let the person know that did it to you this is not okay and you’re going to have to pay for your actions we can’t just cover up the dirt of the scumbags in our community to try and shine this beacon of light that poker is beautiful and you’re beautiful and welcome to put no sometimes shitty stuff happens and you have to do what’s right to fix the situation all in all I understand where people are coming from that they don’t want these stories brought to the forefront I get it it isn’t a positive light for new people coming into the game but unfortunately sometimes in life there are things they’re negative that we have to deal with I think the world of Poker is great it’s a game where you can actually win when you’re gambling by playing against people and not the house it’s a game that embraces skill but also has luck to keep people that are weaker in the game and have a chance to win it’s a game that has been played for many years and will continue to be played in the future it’s a game that’s given me everything that I have and continues to be something that I enjoy being part of so we can focus on those positive aspects about what makes poker a great game while at the same time at realizing that moments we’re going to have to deal with the negative things so remember embrace the positive things about poker but don’t want that blind you from saying what sometimes needs to be said I hope you guys enjoyed my take on the subject feel free to leave your comments below on what you think about the way we should handle these people are what’s right to say what’s not right to say what do you think let me know in the comments below thank you for joining me for today’s video as always make sure to hit that sub button and join the Empire

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